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The S.C.O.R.E. Part II: Why Angle Wasn’t Ranked In The TWD 50

Welcome to Part 2 of the S.C.O.R.E.  If you haven’t read Part 1 yet, click here.

“Not putting anyone over in TNA???  I’m pretty sure he’s done wonders for Matt Morgan’s career and he’s making Desmond Wolfe look like a fucking star”

Wonders for Morgan’s career?  What wonders?  Some people act like Matt Morgan is an overnight mega star on level with the Undertaker, Rock, or Stone Cold….no way.

Angle made Desmond Wolfe/Nigel McGuinness look like a star?  Desmond has been looking like a STAR for several years and his matches with Danielson were STILL better than his recent pay per view match with Angle.

Danielson had Nigel bleeding like a stuck pig before his own home crowd in Liverpool, England; by the time the match had concluded, Nigel appeared to be a half dead boxer who just spent 4 minutes bare knuckle boxing with Mike Tyson without defending himself.

Both men were out to prove they were the best wrestler in the world on that night; EVERYTHING was on the line as Danielson’s Ring of Honor World title and Nigel’s Ring of Honor Pure Wrestling title were both up for grabs in an bout that unified ROH’s top singles championships.  Nigel was the home town favorite who wanted to make good on his turf, while Danielson wanted to embarrass Nigel in his homeland.

Danielson and McGuinness told a brilliant story in that match, just as they did in a match later on in the rivaly when Nigel made Danielson promise not to strike him in the head due to Nigel’s recent concussion troubles, troubles that had Ring of Honor fans questioning Nigel’s manhood since Nigel missed a handful of title defenses so he could recover and not die.  How dare Nigel.

Nigel and Danielson took that set up and built on it beautifully, as Nigel won the match by utilizing head butts and elbows on Danielson’s recently surgically repaired face that was broken by the massive Takeshi Morishima.  THAT is great storytelling and either of those matches certainly told a better story than the story Desmond/Nigel and Angle told at Turning Point, which leads me to something else you said.

You stated that Kurt Angle ALWAYS tells a good story in the ring.  First of all, it is flat out ridiculous to say that someone ALWAYS tells a good story in the ring.  No one ALWAYS tells a good story and some matches tell better stories than others.  Let’s stop using generalities in our arguments, shall we?  If what you said is true, then…yeah….that match Angle wrestled against Justin Credible in WWE’s ECW told….such a great story.  You said always.

Kurt Angle (image credit: WWE)

Kurt Angle (image credit: WWE)

Angle’s match in February of this year with Hiroshi Tanahashi was a disappointment.  I don’t give a damn if it occurred in Japan; this isn’t the 50 best wrestlers in North America, its the 50 best wrestlers in the world.

That match was paint by the numbers Angle; Angle relied on the same spots he has for years in that match and failed to create much of, if anything, new with Tanahashi that he hasn’t been doing for years.

Neither man benefited from a contest that could have and should have been much better than it actually was.  It was a world title match, so it deserved better than to be the “your spot, my spot” affair that it was.  But you know, none of that is why Angle isn’t on the list.

Angle has been off ever since he’s been in TNA.  In fact, he was on the decline before he even arrived in TNA, as he started to lose a step while still working with WWE.  Many of Angle’s matches jump from opening sequences right into tense final minute type sequences without much of a build up.  As a result, the final minute type of sequences come off flat.  This sort of thing didn’t use to happen in Angle’s matches, and if you want proof of this, plug in any of the long list of great Angle matches that you named in your message.  This is not to say that Angle cannot execute what he does execute well, but his decline in the ring has mirrored his decline in physical state, and concurrently, Angle is not the man or wrestler he once was.

I never expect Angle to work a 40 plus minute classic because I don’t think he’s physically capable of doing so on a regular basis. He’s certainly capable of doing so every now and then, but when you claim to be the best wrestler in the world as Angle does, you should be able to work a match of any length at any time.  By comparison, when Bryan Danielson’s “best in the world” hype was at his height in his championship reign, he wrestled several 60 minute matches, including two in ONE WEEKEND.  That’s an episode of Impact, including commercials, of solid wrestling by one man in one weekend.  Eight of Angle’s pay per view bouts this year total roughly 120 minutes in length.

Angle’s matches against Samoa Joe, matches that were hyped as “match of the century” sort of matches, lasted the following lengths of time:

-Lockdown 2008: 17 minutes, 34 seconds

-Genesis 2006: 13 minutes, 42 seconds

-Turning Point 2006: 19 minutes, 17 seconds

-Final Resolution 2006: 30 minutes (Iron Man Match)

Let me remind you that Samoa Joe is a man that has worked TWO 60 minute matches with C.M. Punk, one of which is widely regarded as a five star match, and a 60 minute match with Bryan Danielson.

In fact…let’s take this a step further…here’s a look at each of Angle’s matches on PPV in 2009 and look at their times:

-vs. Jeff Jarrett at Genesis: 21:59

-vs. Sting, Brother Ray and Devon at Against All Odds: 14:34 (main event for world title)

-vs. Sting at Destination X: 13:50 (main event for world title)

-w/ Steiner, Booker T. and Nash vs. Jarrett, Samoa Joe, Daniels, and Styles at Lockdown: 23:01 (main event cage match)

-vs. Sting, Mick Foley, and Jeff Jarrett at Sacrifice: 14:56 (main event match for world title)

-vs. Foley, Jarrett, Styles, and Joe at Slammiversary: 22:04 (main event match for world title)

-vs. Mick Foley at Victory Road: 14:06 (main event match for world title)

-vs. Sting and Matt Morgan at Hard Justice: 11:22 (main event match for world title)

-vs. Matt Morgan, Sting, A.J. Styles, and Hernandez at No Surrender: 15:10 (main event match for world title)

-vs. Matt Morgan at Bound for Glory: 14:45

-vs. Desmond Wolfe at Turning Point: 16:21

So what does all of this mean?  It means I question Angle’s ability to take the same 10-15 minute format that he’s grown accustomed to working with in TNA and stretch it into 35-40 minute match (the very best in the world are capable of doing this) while making it look great.

Only one of Angle’s pay per view main event singles matches went longer than 20 minutes, and that was back in January.  The others that went longer involved several others wrestlers, which would allow Angle plenty of time to rest and takes pressure off of him to carry a huge physical workload during a match.

I know for a fact that guys like Danielson, CIMA, Nagata, Nakamura, KENTA, and Jericho are all capable of taking anytime you give them and finding ways to make it look great in one on one situations without using ridiculous theatrics (i.e. attempting to murder someone with pyrotechnics) to cover for a lack of wrestling skill.

This doesn’t mean that Angle isn’t still a good wrestler for what he’s asked to do, but it’s easy to see that Angle isn’t the beast that he once was, and given his age and the beating he’s taken over his career, that stands to reason.  Be that as it may, that in and of itself doesn’t defeat him from being in the 50, which makes no difference anyhow because none of that has anything to do with why we didn’t rank him in the TWD 50.

‘Career contributions to the pro wrestling world, including pioneering and “trailblazing” work as well as training and introducing young performers to the business

-hmmmm well lets see a pioneer by being the first olympic gold medalist to cross over and opening the doors for other amateurs such as Brock Lesnar, Shelton Benjamin and now Jack Swagger…I think that fits the bill.’

Okay.  This argument looks impressive at first glance, but in reality this argument is not only a poor one, but it’s also poorly researched, invalid, incorrect, and non-sense.

Kurt Angle did NOT open the doors for amateur wrestlers to enter the pro wrestling business.  Come on now.  That right there is so completely and totally ridiculous that I almost don’t even want to give this argument the time of day.  You clearly didn’t even THINK before you wrote that.

Brock Lesnar?  You mean that guy who burned the wrestling business and is now taking his pro wrestling fame and pocketing mad cash competing in mixed martial arts fights for UFC?  Yeah.  I believe you’re also talking about the same Brock Lesnar who quit the business to go try out for the Minnesota Vikings.

Brock Lesnar may always have the stigma of being an ex professional wrestler, but the fact that you can give credit to Angle for opening the door for Lesnar to come into the business is just absurd, given that Lesnar had the GUMPTION to walk away from professional wrestling and take up MMA while Kurt Angle merely talked about it in order to build up his reputation as the greatest professional wrestler in the world.

What the hell has Shelton Benjamin done that will be remembered in 2059?

Jack Swagger was recruited out of Oklahoma University by Jim Ross.  Kurt Angle didn’t open ANY door for him.  Give me a break.

Your thoughts concerning Angle opening the doors for amateur wrestlers simply because he won a gold medal are even more absurd when you consider the other amateur wrestlers that came BEFORE Kurt Angle.  Let’s name that list off shall we?

-Rick Steiner

-Scott Steiner

-Gary Albright

-Dr. Death Steve Williams

-Jack Brisco

-Gerald Brisco

-Danny Hodge

-Bret Hart (former Calgary City Champion in 1973)

This isn’t even a COMPLETE list of pro wrestlers who once wrestled as amateurs that went into the pro wrestling business.  Amateur wrestlers have been crossing over to pro wrestling for MANY years.  Angle didn’t start a trend when he crossed over to professional wrestling; he merely continued the trend and just happens to be the most recent example of “success” for people who have been watching for the last 20 something years.

Only problem there is that KNOWLEDGEABLE people who have been watching wrestling for 20 something years know that Angle didn’t trail blaze a path for other amateur wrestlers to join in on the fun: he FOLLOWED in the footsteps of others.  Hell, even CHARLIE HAAS, who wrestled for Seton Hall University, debuted in pro wrestling two years before Angle even inked a WWE contract in 1998.

Trail blazing? Opening doors for other amateurs?  Right…it was just SO HARD for amateurs to get into pro wrestling before that hero, Kurt Angle, burst through the glass ceiling and ended the discrimination of amateur wrestlers by the pro wrestling business, opening the doors for all to walk through.  Talk about revisionist history.

Angle is indeed the first Olympic gold medalist to cross over from amateur wrestling into pro wrestling, but the fact that he happened to win a gold medal is a coincidence and probably has MORE to do with Angle’s fame (as he used the gold medal as a gimmick) in pro wrestling than it does with amateur wrestlers signing up to work for WWE.

But you want to know the funniest thing about all of this?  None of this has to do with why Angle was left off of the TWD 50.

One of our criteria for the TWD 50 : Overall value to current promotion in terms of quality and quantity of ring work.

You asked of our leaving Angle off the list in terms of this category: “Is this really debatable?”

Um…yes!  The funny thing is that we’re not trying to debate it, but you are.  Since you asked though…

I remember when Kurt Angle first signed with TNA that a number of people, and I’m talking a very large number of people, said that within two to three years of Angle signing with TNA, the company would be competing and maybe even beating the WWE in Nielsen ratings.  Here we are in 2009, two to three years after Angle signed with TNA, and they are still not even threatening the WWE in terms of ratings or any other important and significant measurable statistic.

This is with WWE’s flagship program, RAW, more resembling an episode of Saturday Night Live of late rather than an actual pro wrestling show.  They’ve already got the weekly celebrity host; all the WWE needs now is a weekly band and they’re set.

You could say that this isn’t entirely Angle’s fault, and you would be correct in saying so.  In case you’ve forgotten though, the Main Event Mafia storyline that Angle was at the head of took a steaming crap on a number of careers over the past year or so, including the likes of Samoa Joe, the Motor City Machine Guns, and Petey Williams.  Christopher Daniels gained nothing out of the feud.  Only Eric Young, who wasn’t directly involved with the Main Event Mafia until he formed the World Elite, and A.J. Styles, who unlike Young was directly involved at all times, managed to survive with a push on the other side of the storyline.

Do not argue Matt Morgan because he didn’t even join the fray until the Main Event Mafia angle was half way through its existence.  He also is not presently a champion like Young and Styles are.

The Main Event Mafia storyline failed to have the huge impact that it should have.  Yes, the Main Event Mafia lost a series of matches at the very end, but no one ever definitively stuck it to Kurt Angle in a one on one situation to end the feud and the Mafia.  No group of up and coming talent ever managed to really run off the Main Event Mafia.

In short order, Angle lost the TNA World Heavyweight title to Styles in a mach that included three other wrestlers, and defeated Morgan at Bound For Glory in a hard fought contest that saw Angle “put over” Morgan by shaking his hand afterward.

On an episode of Impact following Bound For Glory, Angle shows up and, after all of his anger, defiance and insistence that TNA’s young talent were second rate, suddenly admits that he was wrong all along.  Are you kidding me?  Matt frickin Morgan is the guy that beats sense into Angle?   So TNA couldn’t do that for Styles, Alex Shelley, Daniels, Samoa Joe, or Eric Young, but they do it for Matt Morgan?

Evidence of the angle’s lack of success can be found in the Nielsen ratings, which continue to hover in the 1.1 area as they have for…well…the last three years.  Incidentally, remember what happened about three years ago?  That’s right; Kurt Angle arrived to TNA.

You can call what Angle did for Morgan “wonders” if you’d like, but there is NOTHING there to suggest that is the truth.  The same group of people is still watching TNA that have been watching TNA since 2006.  Matt Morgan has not brought in any new fans that are eager to see if Matt Morgan can make it big after nearly defeating Angle and earning his respect.

Morgan isn’t even the talk of the company right now, and at Turning Point, while Desmond Wolfe was carrying an injured Angle through their match of the year candidate AND while A.J. Styles working his own match of the year candidate with Samoa Joe and Daniels, Matt Morgan was off participating in a six man tag team match that not much of anyone cared about, because not much of anyone one cares about Rhino or Team 3D right now.

Angle hasn’t had the sort of impact in TNA that everyone envisioned he would.  No one has become a huge star after working with Kurt Angle in TNA.  No one.  Think about this for a second.  Take it in.  Immerse yourself in the meaning of this.  Not Samoa Joe.  Not A.J. Styles.  Not Matt Morgan.  Not Eric Young.  Not Abyss.  Not Rhino.  Not Christian (who never drew the ratings to prove he was a star).  Not Jay Lethal.  No one.

No one has taken a match working with Kurt Angle and turned themselves into a bonafide draw in TNA.  They made themselves popular amongst TNAndroids and the fans that fill the Impact zone every week, but Angle did not manage to take his WWE cred and turn anyone and everyone he faced into a mega drawing star.  The numbers don’t lie, even though you are willing to skew them to support your own theories.

What of Desmond Wolfe, you ask?  If Desmond Wolfe becomes a star, it will be because he is a damn good wrestler, not because Angle put him over.  Wolfe was a great wrestler before he ever crossed paths with Angle and will be a great wrestler after his time working with Angle is complete.  Desmond Wolfe was even a better wrestler in 2008 than Kurt Angle was.

Again though, NONE OF THIS is the reason we left Angle off the list.

“(Angle) put over a hell of a lot of talent in WWE when he was there including youngsters at the time like John Cena and Edge.”

Angle put over John Cena and Edge in WWE.  That’s nice.  When did that happen?  I’m fairly certain that it didn’t happen within the last calendar year, because Angle was last in WWE in 2006.  We’re talking about the top 50 wrestlers in the world for 2009.  I respect the hell out of what Kurt Angle has done in this business, of course, but why are you even bringing this up?

I know what Kurt Angle has done and I know what Kurt Angle is capable of.  You don’t have to explain any of his credentials to me, because I’ve been watching Kurt Angle since the moment he first graced the world of professional wrestling.  Your level of adamance when it comes to proving that Angle and his accomplishments are worthy of being in the TWD 50 shows that you just do not get it.

I guess I can understand that though, as most sites will just tell you how awesome or how crappy a match is, or they’ll tell you about the latest in juicy gossip created by a pack of nerdy 16 year olds.  That’s all the information you have to go on, so I can understand your confusion.  We actually put some thought into what we do here, as opposed to mindlessly copying and pasting the news of the day onto our pages.

The fact that you assume that we think Angle sucks pretty much shows that you just do not understand what it is we are trying to say and do. You spend most of this message ranting about Angle’s accomplishments as if we didn’t know about them.  Really?  Are you not capable of taking it a step further with your thoughts, or are your 20 something years of watching pro wrestling clouding your judgment and critical thinking skills?  Do you think we just started watching pro wrestling yesterday?  You must, because you go on from there:

“Angle has had great matches vs. Brock Lesnar WM 19, vs Brock Lesnar iron man smackdown, vs. Chris Benoit in 2003, vs Undertaker No Way Out 2006, vs Shawn Michaels WM 21, vs Eddie Guerrero WM 20.  (Angle has) versatility in terms of persona and in-ring style: “He can have a 5 star match with Abyss and can work a 5 star match with Rey Mysterio..that’s versatility.”

Thanks for the history lesson that we didn’t need.  I would also like to thank you for naming off a list of Angle’s great matches in WWE when the 50 was a listing of the 50 greatest wrestlers in 2009.   That doesn’t change the fact that the matches were great and that they showcase Angle’s elite talent, but none of that has anything to do with 2009.

The real funny part of your statement comes from your assessment of Angle’s work with Abyss as being “5 star.”  For a guy who has watched professional wrestling for over 20 years, you sure do have low standards for what a five star match is.

I’ve seen Angle work with Abyss on pay per view and television, and I haven’t seen one match from them that I would label as a five star match.  Four stars yes.  Five stars?  Hell no.

What’s even funnier is that you sit there and tell me Angle can have a five star match with Mysterio, yet you don’t even list Angle’s matches with Mysterio in your little “look at all the great matches” tirade.  If his work with Mysterio was a five star match, I wonder what the hell his work with Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, and Shawn Michaels was?

None of this changes the fact that you are right about everything you say in regard  to Angle’s talent and the quality of his work, except for everything you said in the five star match part. You also are unwilling to admit that Angle has declined in recent years.

The real problem, though, is that you are doing this in vain because we already know all of this and do not deny it, but yet you still go on and on and on in an attempt to prove that Angle’s accomplishments are TWD 50 worthy.  Pardon my French, but no shit Sherlock.  You’re missing the point.

The other things you needlessly point out for us are as follows:

You name our TWD 50 criteria: Success in multiple promotions (where applicable, as this may not be a factor for younger talent)

Your response:“WWE and TNA”

Really?  He’s been successful in both?  In all of this proving us wrong about obvious stuff that everyone knows, did you ever stop and think to yourself “Man, why did they not rank Angle?  There must be some decent reason.”  Clearly not, because you assume we are  completely to everything Angle.  You continue though:

You name our TWD 50 criteria: Drawing ability

Your response:“Not the biggest draw ever, a drawback”

TWD 50 criteria: Fan popularity

Your response:“Whether heel or face, People respect Kurt Angle and his work in the ring”

TWD 50 criteria: Consistency

Your response:“RARELY has a bad match”

TWD 50 criteria: Work ethic

Your response: “Wrestles every match like it’s his last…he never phones it in”

TWD 50 criteria: Ability to connect to the audience and get them to react in a desired way

Your response: “ALWAYS…very good at that”

Good lord, is your mind as numb from reading obvious statements like mine is?  You really must think we’re powerfully stupid and ignorant if you felt compelled to tell us that Angle is respected by fans, has a great work ethic, and can connect with an audience.  The sad part for you is that Angle coming up short in any or even all of those categories is NOT THE REASON WE DO NOT RANK HIM IN THE TWD 50.  Is it sinking in yet?

Now for your grand finale.  You wrote the following:

“Basically, it may be your opinion, fine, but i’ve been watching wrestling for 20 something years now, i’ve seen it all..”

So we have our opinion, but yours is for some reason automatically better because you’ve “seen it all” and have been watching for “20 something years.”  Congratulations.  Do you want a cookie?  A Jolly Rancher?  A fig Newton?  That’s great news though; I didn’t know that if you’ve been doing something for over 20 years, you are automatically right and everyone else is a moron and doesn’t know anything.

I find it amazing that you’re telling me all of this, and you don’t even UNDERSTAND the reason we did not rate Angle in the 50.  You still go on though:

“ and I know Kurt Angle deserves to be in that top 10 whether you like the man or not…”

Again, it has nothing to do with liking Kurt Angle as a man, a wrestler, an Olympian, a baldy, an America, a human being, a man who looks like a hobo with a beard, a living creature in the universe, a dater of Rhaka Khan, a coffee drinker, or even a taker of Myoplex.  If you think that we didn’t put Angle in because we simply don’t like him as a man, you aren’t even in the same damn universe in terms of the reason we didn’t rank Angle.

We aren’t the idiots you seem to think we are, and we certainly aren’t the sort of hacks that merely do not include someone in a list because we do not like them.  If you are looking for the sort of hacks who WOULD do that, then you need to visit another website, because you WILL NOT find them here.

Yet you STILL go on:

“Anybody who reads this list will complain, as most already have, therefore this list has no credibility.”

For starters, not everyone who has read this list has complained, so you are talking out of your ass to make yourself look good.  You assume everyone must think like you.  News flash mi amigo, not everyone thinks like you and has the same opinion as you.  I find it hilarious that you can say this to us when the following can be said of you and your arguments.

-You don’t even understand why we didn’t rank Kurt Angle

-You say “anybody” who reads this list will complain, and then later in the same sentence you admit that only “most” have complained.  You logically just defeated yourself in that sentence.

-Under your logic, if someone didn’t complain about the TWD 50, it is credible.  There are people who haven’t complained about the TWD 50 and have praised it.  Therefore the TWD 50 is credible.

-You proved in one sentence that the TWD 50 was credible even though your goal was to prove it wasn’t credible within that sentence.

-You’ve spent more time talking about what Angle did in the WWE than you did about what Angle has done in TNA.  This is the 2009 TWD 50 we’re talking about here.

So where does that leave us?  I’m sure you’re just dying to understand why we left Kurt Angle off the list after you wasted your time sending us that angry rant that I really enjoyed.  We know Angle is a great wrestler.  We know Angle has accomplished a great deal in his time working in the professional wrestling business.  We know Angle is capable of great matches with a lot of different wrestlers of varying styles.  We know he knows how to work an audience, is consistent, has a great work ethic, has been successful in multiple promotions, is very respected by the fans, and is quite popular.  We know all of that and have no problem admitting that at all.

So why did we not rank him in the TWD 50?  We’re taking a stand against the wrongs of the pro wrestling business.

Wrongs like the business not giving back to the wrestlers in a reciprocal fashion to the way that the wrestlers give to the business.  Take a look at a standard WWE contract, and I think you’d question why anyone would sign one in the first place.  In a normal situation, no one would sign it, but WWE is one of the few options out there for a professional wrestler to make it big in the business other than TNA, who is running in a distant second right now.

A typical professional wrestler in WWE pays for their own travel accommodations, wardrobe, training and drug-tests by a doctor of their choosing.  Add all of that to the fact that the company keeps most of the money “earned” by a wrestler, there’s not much left for everything else.

Bret Hart wrote in his most recent book (Hitman), of his troubles with money even when his schedule was the most brutal during his career.  With Hart on the road for nearly the duration of the year, he didn’t even have the money to afford a plane ticket to fly home to see his wife and kids when he could.

It’s no wonder the Hitman fought so hard for his 20 year, benefit laden contract.  Bret Hart’s contract threatened the very business model Vince McMahon earned his riches off of.

Pro wrestlers also must provide their own medical insurance and are given no retirement benefits.  WWE is also not obligated to pay wrestler’s taxes or make withholdings to pay wrestler’s income taxes.  According to a standard WWE contract, professional wrestlers are independent contractors and as such, they are not entitled to the benefits and rights of employment.

But wait….there’s more!

The WWE booking contracts of Scott “Raven” Levy, Mike Sanders, Chris ”Kanyon” Klucsarits were made available to the public (ctemploymentlawblog.com) during their lawsuit against WWE that sought to have professional wrestlers classified as employees instead of independent contractors.  The contract Scott “Raven” Levy was working under when he plied his trade in WWE contained the following language:

“This Agreement will be terminated by WRESTLER’s death during the Term, with no further compensation due WRESTLER’s heirs, successors, personal representatives or assigns.”

“WRESTLER acknowledges that the participation and activities required by WRESTLER in connection with WRESTLER’S performance in a professional wrestling exhibition may be dangerous and may involve the risk of serious bodily injury.  WRESTLER knowingly and freely assumes full responsibility for all such inherent risks as well as those due to the negligence of the promoter, other wrestlers, or otherwise.”

“In the event that WRESTLER is unable to wrestle for six (6) consecutive weeks during the Term of this Agreement due to an injury suffered in the ring while performing services at PROMOTER’s direction, PROMOTER shall have the right to thereafter terminate this Agreement or suspend WRESTLER without pay. If WRESTLER is unable to wrestle for any other reason during the Term of this Agreement, PROMOTER shall have the right to immediately terminate this Agreement or suspend WRESTER without pay.”

These contracts work almost wholly to the advantage of Vince McMahon, who is basically rolling in the dough because he doesn’t have to pay taxes on wrestlers, doesn’t have to provide them any benefits, doesn’t have to pay wrestlers who are injured and essentially isn’t liable if wrestlers do get hurt, even if it’s his fault.

McMahon also doesn’t owe a dime to the families or heirs of a wrestler that works for him, which sheds some light on why Vickie Guerrero happens to still be working in WWE long after Eddie Guerrero’s death.  The company took care of the Guerrero family alright, but only if Vickie made Vince money first.  I suppose all of the money that Eddie made for Vince wasn’t enough.

Some of the contract stipulations that I’ve mentioned are likely different for bigger name superstars in the company (i.e. Undertaker, Cena, Triple H, etc.), but across the board, the stipulations listed in Levy’s contract are pretty standard.

The real kicker here is that making changes to the system to give wrestlers the rights and benefits of employees would turn the pro wrestling business on its ear and potentially put McMahon out of business.  McMahon has made a killing off of knowing his business law and having a ruthless team of lawyers to protect the interests of the company.  It’s smart business, but be that as it may, its not exactly great business for professional wrestlers.

So what does this have to do with Kurt Angle?  The business should be helping Kurt Angle and not pushing him into providing us with match of the year candidates.  By doing that, the business is continuing to help itself and not the workers it treats unfairly to rake in the profits that it does.

Like I said, making large scale changes to the business could cause the business to collapse altogether, but perhaps a good start would be for promoters to make a sacrifice of their own for a change and decide that a life is more important than a wrestling match.  Kurt Angle ultimately has a right to a living and he can chose to do whatever he wants to do with his career and his life.  The Wrestling Daily has the right to take a stand and not include Angle in our TWD 50.  You have a right to disagree.

It’s not a conventional form of protest, but to be honest with you, if you’ve seen it all and have been watching for 20 something years, you do not need us to tell you that Angle was a great wrestler and is still pretty good.  Why his exclusion collapses the integrity of a list you otherwise were sold on is perhaps the reason Angle continues to wrestle to this very day when he probably shouldn’t be.

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19 Comments

  1. Akash Doshi

    The TWD 5O is superb. I agree with most of the rankings but i think that Kota Ibushi should be included in this list. He is a terrific wrestler who has the ability to tell a good story and has brilliant in ring skills.

    Also, i may sound bias, but i think that AJ Styles should be ranked higher up than Devitt and Shawn Mickeals. He is rare as he is a heavyweight highflyier which is awesome and is match are full of surprises in terms of skills

  2. Saaron

    Hi…. Honestly, till i read this; I never even realized that Angle was missing from the TWD50…. :) That list is so full of so many awesome wrestlers [not to mention topped of J2K!!]…

    But my comments are on the passionate response that you have spoken about… and your passion towards professional wrestling burns throughout the soul-searching conclusion that you provided here. I was appalled at those contracts that you showed out… I had no idea… and I have been watching Pro-Wrestling for over a decade now… Thanks a lot. You have jus provided me to hold those wrestlers with that much more respect… My sincere prayers with every1 and their families.

    Thanks Jason

  3. Did you see the rankings other than the top 10? Ibushi was ranked 30th in the 50.

  4. Rob

    What really sucks about this article JL, is that you beat me to the punch in writing about Angle’s health.

    But in all seriousness, he’s one of those guys that I worry about sometimes (right up there with Jake Roberts and Scott Hall), especially in the aftermath of his divorce. It just seems like he’s got an insatiable need to be physical, past the point where it’s detrimental to his physical and mental health. And that’s a shame, because he’s a good enough speaker that he could easily do a non-wrestling role, or even one where he just wrestles on occasion. The last thing as fans (or as people) we want to see is another wrestling tragedy. And considering how GREAT Kurt Angle has been to us over the years…it would just be so, so sad….

    I will say though, that while Angle hardly opened the door for amateur wrestlers in the pro biz, he did help shine a greater light on it. Now, announcer’s make a point to talk about the amateur accomplishments of Shelton Benjamin, Charlie Haas and Jack Swagger. Before, they were probably less inclined to.

    Rob

    • I’ve never really heard the announcers talk about the amateur accomplishments of Charlie Haas before lol.

      I think you are correct to a some extent about announcers feeling more inclined to mention amateur accomplishments, but I think that might be only true in WWE. The Steiner Brothers both wore Michigan letter jackets to the ring and Rick even wore amateur wrestling headgear. The Steiners even did this when they briefly worked in WWE.

      Gary Albright himself basically wore a Nebraska singlet as his ring outfit.

      I agree with you 100 percent on your thoughts about Angle.

  5. So, let me get this straight, just so there is no confusion: Kurt Angle wasn’t good enough for the TWD50, right?

    Okay, just making sure. :-)

  6. Anon

    Just sort of skimmed through all of this. If we’re talking about the present, then yes Angle is certainly past his prime and shouldn’t be on any current top lists for performance, especially without the marketing power of the WWE.

    For all time though, he’ll definitely be remembered in 2059, as put in the article. We can argue and try to turn his accomplishments any way we want, but the fact is Angle was a huge megastar that is still talked about today – this very article is evidence of that stardom. That in itself largely overshadows any shortcomings he had in his career. He has the “it” factor that many in the 50 don’t, and no amount of trailblazing, storylines, or wrestling ability can give you that. That’s what puts butts in seats.

    • The problem is beyond all the positives, look at what our society gets off on now (and yes, that’s the term I use for it). It’s the TMZ Era, and we’re all just living to watch famous people screw up. Don’t think for a second that Angle won’t be remembered 50 years from now as “A helluva wrestler who had some big-time issues.”

  7. Steve

    I don’t see why people are getting so bent out of shape about this. I seriously doubt Kurt Angle would give a shit even if he was ranked number one. Even if someone happened to mention to him that he wasn’t on the list, he probably laughed it off and hasn’t thought about it since. It’s not like this is a big feather in Chris Jericho’s cap. Anyway, great list and great site.

  8. Wow Jason. Thanks for putting me to shame with your writing. :D Great piece here. I tweeted the hell out of it too. Your thoughts about Kurt are the same as some of the ones I have about Shawn and The Undertaker. While I know Shawn (may) not be in the type of shape Kurt’s in, I still fear for his safety every time he’s in some kind of a specialty match. I really, REALLY would rather not see him in a TLC match AT ALL especially given the rest of the participants. Shawn and Jericho will no doubt take all the big bumps and whatnot since HHH is injury prone while Show is already injured. Factor in Jericho’s completely unfair and unhealthy schedule plus Shawn’s inability to half do anything and you have the perfect opportunity for something to go wrong.

    The situation with The Undertaker is questionable. While I know you can’t believe everything you hear online, its quite noticeable now that Taker’s matches are shortening in length. While they’re still pretty good it begs the question as to how healthy he really is.

    Im so glad you brought this up. Even now a part of me wants to feel sorry for someone like Jeff Hardy. Its a wonder he hasn’t snapped yet. I may not like Jeff but he worked his ass off during his run with Punk so I can’t take that away from him.

    Like you, I wish Kurt would get a grip on reality. I don’t want to see him end up like Owen and I sure as hell don’t want him to be like Flair when he gets his age. These health/contract issues are things we fans tend to overlook when we shouldn’t.

    BTW, those contracts are bogus -__-

  9. Taymur

    Hey Jason. You and I were having a discussion on this about a week or so ago. I thought i would go away and do some research, re-read the TOP 50, study some video footage before i replied. unfortunately due to work that never happened but i do want to discuss the matter further.

    firstly, that was a very very well written article. your knowledge and research is impressive and your ability to make an argument without wearing out the same point noteworthy. Not knowing much about Japanese wrestling your TOP 50 has really opened my eyes to new fronts which i will forever be grateful. Also to clarify to things i) i had called Matt Morgan “huge” in an earlier article. what i meant was that he was, at the time while interacting with angle, one of the most over wrestlers in TNA (sorry about the earlier overexaggeration). Secondly, i had state there was no way you / mike scanlon could know about all the Japanese wrestlers personal lives…. this did not mean you didn’t do your research or weren’t up to date, by this i meant that North American media is just much more in your face and sensational stories of people falling apart make it to the front page news more often then in a country like Japan which is still relatively more conservative.

    now that is out of the way i will give my remaining thoughts about Angle.

  10. Taymur

    i agree with everything you said about Angle and the industry. He should NOT be doing this self, i actually give you two Kudos for taking such a stand. By leaving Angle out you left room for this debate and by doing that you have brought the issue in front of many who had NO IDEA.

    However, i still feel there is an inconsistency in your list. In the list you have praised Nigel McGuiness for hitting his head REALLY HARD multiple times against a ringpost…… this is sort of behaviour that leads one to becoming someone like Angle or Benoit. If someone had the wisdom to stop Benoit from doing all those diving headbutts, he and his family may have still survived.

    Also in your review of Samoa Joe commentted on the serious damage he is doing to his knee and how he is harming himself by working with injuries…. again this is same as what Angle is doing but Joe is younger and less beaten up but going the same direction.

    I am in no way saying that either of these two should be DISCLUDED or INCLUDED. I am just pointing something out.

    Finally, the guy who sent you the mail is an Extremist.. but you two have taken it to the otherside completely. He may not be the best or Top Ten, but he certainly isn’t as bad as you have made him out in this article.

    Finally i) I agree with your point of discluding him on principle but not on wrestling grounds. ii) since you made an effort to list your criteria and think what some people have an issue with is that you did not place “SELF HARM” as a criteria, although it is your perogative to judge through your values since its YOUR list

    • “He may not be the best or Top Ten, but he certainly isn’t as bad as you have made him out in this article.”

      Ok….throughout this article I said that he was one of the 50 best in the world and that he can execute what he does quite well. Where did I make him out to be a bad wrestler? More over, why do you seem to consider everyone not in the top 10 to be bad when I stated numerous times that his “skill” was NOT why he didn’t get ranked? You keep acting like I’m saying that Angle sucks when all I said was that he wasn’t the wrestler he used to be. It’s as if some of you won’t accept that I’m not willing to call Angle one of the best in the world when I repeatedly say that his skill makes him qualified. I’m not really sure where you come off saying that I make him look or sound like bad wrestler. Is it because I analyzed his matches for what they were and are?

      You can call that being an “Extremist” if you want, but considering that I acknowledged that Angle’s skill made him worthy of the top 50, I’m not really sure where you get off saying that I said Angle is bad. Please, tell me where I said that? I will readily show you the numerous occasions where I said Angle’s skill was TWD 50 worthy. I may have closely analyzed Angle’s performances, but closely analyzing is not the same thing as saying a guy sucks.

      To put it succinctly, you are wrong on that one and you are making me out to be an “extremist” that I am not. Furthermore, prove to me that I am wrong about my assessment. Show me a video from this past year that shows me that I am wrong. And again, show me where I said that Angle was a bad wrestler in the same article that I said his skill was 50 worthy? Hell…lets see the quote…

      “If I had a vendetta, I would deny that Angle is a great wrestler and that he shouldn’t be on the 50. I do not particularly wish to inflate Angle’s ego or encourage his promoters to squeeze more out of the “Olympic hero” for reasons I’m about to explain, but if it makes you feel better and helps you sleep at night, you’re absolutely correct; Angle is a great wrestler and he is one of the 50 best in the world.”

      Highlight that last sentence buddy…tell me what it says. Please…tell me how that makes Angle out to be bad. Tell me how being called one of the 50 best in the world makes you bad when there are thousands upon thousands of wrestlers in the world? Don’t even dare call it an admission under duress because I admit nothing that I do not believe because someone sent me a half witted message.

      If I were the other side of Extreme that you say I am…I wouldn’t even be willing to rank him on the 50 based on skill. So tell me how it is that I’m being extreme and making him out to look like a bad wrestler? My crime here seems to be analyzing Angle and his matches…but that doesn’t make me an extreme anti Angle guy. That’s ridiculous.

      Throughout my analysis, I say that THIS ISN’T THE REASON WHY WE DISCLUDED HIM. Someone…anyone…please tell me how many times I made that statement or some form of it throughout this article? What more do I have to say to you that will get you to understand that is in ring skill was NOT why he was discluded? Do I have to write it hundreds of times on a blackboard?

      “In the list you have praised Nigel McGuiness for hitting his head REALLY HARD multiple times against a ringpost…… this is sort of behaviour that leads one to becoming someone like Angle or Benoit.”

      I would agree with you if Nigel rammed his head into the ringpost….oh….10,000 times. But what I was talking about was something he did ONCE. How long has Angle been wrestling with that bad neck? How long did Benoit wrestler with concussions UNCHECKED? I even said in this article that Nigel took time on a few occasions to heal when he needed to despite the fans shitting on him for it. How is that like Benoit or Angle? Yes…Nigel once did something that was pretty stupid…but that was also several years ago and he hasn’t done it since.

      “Also in your review of Samoa Joe commentted on the serious damage he is doing to his knee and how he is harming himself by working with injuries…. again this is same as what Angle is doing but Joe is younger and less beaten up but going the same direction.”

      You have a point, but I think we also mentioned that he was heading in that direction. Samoa Joe also isn’t spiraling in and out of the ring. We’ve heard recently of Joe getting married and having a child. What have you heard recently about Angle? Whatever you’ve ever is MUCH more negative. If push comes to shove, I think Joe is more likely to take time off if he really needs it above Angle. This is not to say one is tougher than the other, but it is to say one appears to have a better head on his shoulders than the other.

      • Taymur

        First of all i re-read your article and i am COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY wrong. I was trying to maintain a middle ground where angle isn’t the greatest thing since sliced bread and Angle is over the hill and i think i saw things in your article that weren’t there. I am sorry and i am wrong, not that makes it any better.

        My comment on McGuiness was regarding the ACTION not the Person but i was unable to make it clear.
        “Yes…Nigel once did something that was pretty stupid…but that was also several years ago and he hasn’t done it since” —-
        i agree with what you said but i thought it was wrong that in the TWD 50 he was praised for doing that. Thats how young wrestlers start walking toward a road like Angle and should not be praised. (if that makes sense to you).

        Joe however is another story. If you compare Joe right now to Angle at a similar time in his career you will see more similarities then not in regards to physical well-being. The fact that Joe is married with a kid is NOT a sign stability less we forget Angle was there too. What he is doing right now is wrong and he should’ve been discluded for that because he has shown no signs that he is going to look after himself. its been a while since he’s been doing this to himself. (another similarity is how the were both go to guys to fill gaps but neglected otherwise)

        I appreciate your stance and have immense RESPECT for you for it. But as i said before there should be consistency in it – or maybe there is consistency i missed it (as my first paragraph shows i do miss things).

  11. Taymur

    First of all i re-read your article and i am COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY wrong. I was trying to maintain a middle ground where angle isn’t the greatest thing since sliced bread and Angle is over the hill and i think i saw things in your article that weren’t there. I am sorry and i am wrong, not that makes it any better.

    My comment on McGuiness was regarding the ACTION not the Person but i was unable to make it clear.
    “Yes…Nigel once did something that was pretty stupid…but that was also several years ago and he hasn’t done it since” —-
    i agree with what you said but i thought it was wrong that in the TWD 50 he was praised for doing that. Thats how young wrestlers start walking toward a road like Angle and should not be praised. (if that makes sense to you).

    Joe however is another story. If you compare Joe right now to Angle at a similar time in his career you will see more similarities then not in regards to physical well-being. The fact that Joe is married with a kid is NOT a sign stability less we forget Angle was there too. What he is doing right now is wrong and he should’ve been discluded for that because he has shown no signs that he is going to look after himself. its been a while since he’s been doing this to himself. (another similarity is how the were both go to guys to fill gaps but neglected otherwise)

    I appreciate your stance and have immense RESPECT for you for it. But as i said before there should be consistency in it – or maybe there is consistency i missed it (as my first paragraph shows i do miss things).

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